but i've known senator mccain for a long time. he's never on talking points. he always talks about what he believes and what he thinks. i've seen him go into those meetings where he's walked out and said i'm still not for her but not as against her as i was. apparently they didn't find a whole lot to agree with in that meeting. if she's auditioning to be the top diplomat, i would hope they'd come out better. >> she did request the meetings. >> right. >> not as if they called her up there. >> no question about that. she's pushing these meetings, the one asking for these meetings. like i said, if this is auditioning to be our top diplomat, what that's what these meetings are about -- >> sometimes you go into meetings in diplomacy and you do come out aggressively because some foreign countries aren't our allies and aren't going to be. >> no question. >> as far as she can tell, john mccain doesn't seem like an alloy so it was a tough meeting. that's fine. >> joy-ann, last word. >> john mccain is driven by his resentments and his piques. the idea when he was beaten